Unattached Athletes Running in GHSA Meets
09/14/2019 11:07:24 PM
Admin
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2881
Can someone clearly explain for everyone, the rules on 'unattached' runners competing in GHSA sanctioned XC meets? There seems to be rash of this going on now. Thanks
Can someone clearly explain for everyone, the rules on 'unattached' runners competing in GHSA sanctioned XC meets? There seems to be rash of this going on now. Thanks
09/15/2019 12:29:18 AM
Admin
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2881
And, MS Schoolers running in JV Races, when a MS race is being contested at the same meet that morning.
And, MS Schoolers running in JV Races, when a MS race is being contested at the same meet that morning.
09/15/2019 7:30:57 AM
Power User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 671
@gawebmaster There should never be any unattached athletes in GHSA sanctioned races. Here is the portion of the By-laws that applies: (4) Unattached Competitor: Individual athletes may participate in non-GHSA events in the sports of Cross Country, Golf, Gymnastics, Riflery, Swimming, Tennis, Track and Wrestling as long as they do not represent their school, do not wear the school uniform, and are not coached at the event, or transported to the event, by their high school coach. “House teams” made up of athletes from various schools competing in a GHSA event are not considered to be unattached competitors and are illegal. (5) No athlete will be allowed to compete in a GHSA game or contest (even in post-season play) unless accompanied by certified professional school personnel whose names have been submitted to the GHSA as coaches. Those students chaperoned by someone other than a certified professional will not be allowed to compete. (6) In any GHSA sport, there may be no “open” competitions or exhibition performances that extend participation beyond the three levels of competition (i.e., varsity, JV, 9th grade) mandated in this by-law. The only interscholastic contests in which results are disregarded are scrimmages as defined below. Here are the rules in regards to 8th graders: GEORGIA HIGH SCHOOL ASSOCIATION NOTE: Violations of these participation rules in ANY sport will result in a mandatory fine and an automatic forfeiture of the game in which the student exceeded the limit. Additional penalties may be imposed by the Executive Director in extreme circumstances. Eighth grade students may participate on a sub-varsity team of a high school provided they attend a feeder school of that high school. (a) Students in grade 8 are never eligible for a varsity event in any activity. (b) Eighth grade students who play on a high school team must meet all middle school requirements as put forth by the State Department of Education. (c) An eighth grade student who is declared ineligible at a middle school or retained for academic reasons, is considered to be ineligible for participation on a sub-varsity high school team. (d) Eighth grade students participating on a sub-varsity team may only participate in 60% of the number of games allotted to the varsity team in that sport. Eighth grade students may not participate in more sub-varsity and middle school contests combined than the number the GHSA allows for varsity competition in that respective sport. (e) Students below the eighth grade are not eligible to participate on any high school team. (f) Students enrolled in grade 8 in a middle school or junior high school which is a feeder school to the member high school may participate in Spring football practice. (g) Students enrolled in grade 8 in a middle school or junior high school which is a feeder school to the member high school may try out for cheerleader at the high school. Eighth grade students at a non-feeder school that has no system high school may participate in cheerleader tryouts at the member high school serving the student’s area of residence. Such a student must be pre-enrolled at that member high school, and once pre-enrolled, the student has established eligibility at that high school. (h) All eighth grade students should be reported on Eligibility Form D. This form is available on the GHSA web site (www.ghsa.net).
@gawebmaster There should never be any unattached athletes in GHSA sanctioned races. Here is the portion of the By-laws that applies:

(4) Unattached Competitor: Individual athletes may participate in non-GHSA events in the sports of Cross Country, Golf, Gymnastics, Riflery, Swimming, Tennis, Track and Wrestling as long as they do not represent their school, do not wear the school uniform, and are not coached at the event, or transported to the event, by their high school coach. "House teams" made up of athletes from various schools competing in a GHSA event are not considered to be unattached competitors and are illegal.
(5) No athlete will be allowed to compete in a GHSA game or contest (even in post-season play) unless accompanied by certified professional school personnel whose names have been submitted to the GHSA as coaches. Those students chaperoned by someone other than a certified professional will not be allowed to compete.
(6) In any GHSA sport, there may be no "open" competitions or exhibition performances that extend participation beyond the three levels of competition (i.e., varsity, JV, 9th grade) mandated in this by-law. The only interscholastic contests in which results are disregarded are scrimmages as defined below.

Here are the rules in regards to 8th graders:

GEORGIA HIGH SCHOOL ASSOCIATION
NOTE: Violations of these participation rules in ANY sport will result in a mandatory fine and an automatic forfeiture of the game in which the student exceeded the limit. Additional penalties may be imposed by the Executive Director in extreme circumstances.
Eighth grade students may participate on a sub-varsity team of a high school provided they attend a feeder school of that high school.
(a) Students in grade 8 are never eligible for a varsity event in any activity.
(b) Eighth grade students who play on a high school team must meet all middle school requirements as put
forth by the State Department of Education.
(c) An eighth grade student who is declared ineligible at a middle school or retained for academic reasons,
is considered to be ineligible for participation on a sub-varsity high school team.
(d) Eighth grade students participating on a sub-varsity team may only participate in 60% of the number of games allotted to the varsity team in that sport. Eighth grade students may not participate in more sub-varsity and middle school contests combined than the number the GHSA allows for varsity
competition in that respective sport.
(e) Students below the eighth grade are not eligible to participate on any high school team.
(f) Students enrolled in grade 8 in a middle school or junior high school which is a feeder school to the
member high school may participate in Spring football practice.
(g) Students enrolled in grade 8 in a middle school or junior high school which is a feeder school to the
member high school may try out for cheerleader at the high school. Eighth grade students at a non-feeder school that has no system high school may participate in cheerleader tryouts at the member high school serving the student's area of residence. Such a student must be pre-enrolled at that member high school, and once pre-enrolled, the student has established eligibility at that high school.
(h) All eighth grade students should be reported on Eligibility Form D. This form is available on the GHSA web site (www.ghsa.net).
09/15/2019 12:10:02 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 123
@goldeneaglexc We run our 8th grade as Junior Varsity as we do not have a middle school team in XC. We do not race the middle school race even though it is available at many meets.
@goldeneaglexc

We run our 8th grade as Junior Varsity as we do not have a middle school team in XC. We do not race the middle school race even though it is available at many meets.
09/15/2019 1:47:19 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 19
(d) Eighth grade students participating on a sub-varsity team may only participate in 60% of the number of games allotted to the varsity team in that sport. Eighth grade students may not participate in more sub-varsity and middle school contests combined than the number the GHSA allows for varsity competition in that respective sport. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This means that 8th graders on JV can only contest 6 total meets in the fall and this would INCLUDE a JV region meet. 5 total meets plus JV region. Region only does not count as a contest date for varsity athletes.
(d) Eighth grade students participating on a sub-varsity team may only participate in 60% of the number of games allotted to the varsity team in that sport. Eighth grade students may not participate in more sub-varsity and middle school contests combined than the number the GHSA allows for varsity
competition in that respective sport.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This means that 8th graders on JV can only contest 6 total meets in the fall and this would INCLUDE a JV region meet. 5 total meets plus JV region. Region only does not count as a contest date for varsity athletes.
09/15/2019 3:03:06 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 639
Also, keep in mind that some school systems' rules regarding middle schoolers are more restrictive than GHSA rules. For example, Gwinnett does not allow 8th graders to compete on a JV team, at all.
Also, keep in mind that some school systems' rules regarding middle schoolers are more restrictive than GHSA rules. For example, Gwinnett does not allow 8th graders to compete on a JV team, at all.
09/15/2019 9:32:32 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 150
So a quick question regarding this. Who is the responsibility on, the meet director, the coach, the runner, someone else? Who does this get reported to? What is the penalty? So I referee some HS sports and one of them used to have a rule that said you could not play in more than 3 half's of soccer in a day. So a team played 2 matches in a tournament, you were only allowed to play in 3 of the half's. This has been amended, it was focused on someone playing a JV then Varsity match back to back. But a coach would approach me about a player, in a match that I had not seen. We were always told to address the AD or Game administrator. It was not our responsibility to police the line-ups. So the question I have is who has the responsibility? I now that a now Freshman ran in his Region JV race two seasons ago as a 7th grader. The results are on Milesplit. Is there a statue of limitations? My example is one of many that could easily be looked at with a quick glance at the results of each race. I am just wondering what the process looks like.
So a quick question regarding this. Who is the responsibility on, the meet director, the coach, the runner, someone else? Who does this get reported to? What is the penalty?

So I referee some HS sports and one of them used to have a rule that said you could not play in more than 3 half's of soccer in a day. So a team played 2 matches in a tournament, you were only allowed to play in 3 of the half's. This has been amended, it was focused on someone playing a JV then Varsity match back to back. But a coach would approach me about a player, in a match that I had not seen. We were always told to address the AD or Game administrator. It was not our responsibility to police the line-ups. So the question I have is who has the responsibility? I now that a now Freshman ran in his Region JV race two seasons ago as a 7th grader. The results are on Milesplit.

Is there a statue of limitations? My example is one of many that could easily be looked at with a quick glance at the results of each race. I am just wondering what the process looks like.
09/16/2019 5:21:24 AM
Power User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1020
It is the responsibility of the coach to not run any illegal runners in a race they sign up for (examples - 8th grade in a varsity race, 7th grade or younger in a JV race, transfers not eligible for varsity in a varsity race, etc...). I believe that, if it's reported, the coach/school will be fined. If it happens multiple times then there are possibly worse consequences, but I don't know for sure. It is the responsibility of the meet director to not let any unattached athletes into their meet. When they host a meet they need to submit an application to GHSA (and also NFHS if it's big enough) essentially agreeing to all of GHSA's rules. This applies to out of state meets as well. If they don't, then my assumption is GHSA will attempt to fine them and/or not sanction future races if it becomes a pattern. It is incredibly easy for meet directors to keep unattached athletes out of their meets. The reason they don't is either they're incredibly lazy, they just want the extra money, or they just don't care about following the rules. If you want things changed, then report them the GHSA.
It is the responsibility of the coach to not run any illegal runners in a race they sign up for (examples - 8th grade in a varsity race, 7th grade or younger in a JV race, transfers not eligible for varsity in a varsity race, etc...). I believe that, if it's reported, the coach/school will be fined. If it happens multiple times then there are possibly worse consequences, but I don't know for sure.

It is the responsibility of the meet director to not let any unattached athletes into their meet. When they host a meet they need to submit an application to GHSA (and also NFHS if it's big enough) essentially agreeing to all of GHSA's rules. This applies to out of state meets as well. If they don't, then my assumption is GHSA will attempt to fine them and/or not sanction future races if it becomes a pattern.

It is incredibly easy for meet directors to keep unattached athletes out of their meets. The reason they don't is either they're incredibly lazy, they just want the extra money, or they just don't care about following the rules. If you want things changed, then report them the GHSA.
09/16/2019 9:40:52 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 101
Why is the GHSA so backwards? Why can't middle schoolers compete with High Schoolers? Is it a competitive advantage? Or is it a case of "It has always been done that way?" A majority of other states don't have that rule -- Just curious -- not trying to stir the pot.
Why is the GHSA so backwards? Why can't middle schoolers compete with High Schoolers? Is it a competitive advantage? Or is it a case of "It has always been done that way?" A majority of other states don't have that rule -- Just curious -- not trying to stir the pot.
09/16/2019 10:12:01 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 150
Possible reasons for the prohibition would be as follows: 1. Liability 2. It has always been done this way. 3. Someone created the rule and it has never been formally challenged. 4. Wanting to let runners compete against those that age appropriate. Just a few thoughts. None may be correct.
Possible reasons for the prohibition would be as follows:
1. Liability
2. It has always been done this way.
3. Someone created the rule and it has never been formally challenged.
4. Wanting to let runners compete against those that age appropriate.

Just a few thoughts. None may be correct.
09/16/2019 1:19:03 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 22
@Bwill912 I'd imagine there's an argument regarding safety. Even in the GISA 8th graders can't compete in football for the obvious reason that most of those kids just aren't big enough. I do think that in sports like xc/track, wrestling, and swimming, safety is obviously less of an issue. And if we want to talk about developing elite distance runners at the state and/or national level, there's a benefit to developing these kids' aerobic capacity at an early age if they have the talent and the desire to train at a higher level.
@Bwill912 I'd imagine there's an argument regarding safety. Even in the GISA 8th graders can't compete in football for the obvious reason that most of those kids just aren't big enough.

I do think that in sports like xc/track, wrestling, and swimming, safety is obviously less of an issue. And if we want to talk about developing elite distance runners at the state and/or national level, there's a benefit to developing these kids' aerobic capacity at an early age if they have the talent and the desire to train at a higher level.
09/16/2019 1:24:51 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 95
It was interesting (to me, at least) that this issue of home school athletes participating in GHSA activities was discussed and voted on just a few months ago, April 2019. It appears this vote was in regards to allowing home school athletes to compete for the school in their attendance zone. This is different than the concept of allowing them to participate "unattached" in "non-team" sports. GEORGIA HIGH SCHOOL ASSOCIATION [url=https://www.ghsa.net/sites/default/files/documents/executive-committee/MinutesApril2019.pdf]MEETING MINUTES (link)[/url] STATE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE April 15, 2019 BOARD OF TRUSTEES [i]The committee RECOMMENDED: 1. Proposal to allow “home schooled” students to participate in GHSA activities for the member school in whose attendance zone they reside. Decisions regarding participation, grade validation and discipline are determined by the local education agency. MOTION FAILED (19-47 Roll Call Vote #2 - Yes: Horton, Turner, Barton, Weyher, May, Craft, C. Miller, Brewington, R. Jackson, Battles, Daniel, Luke, Thompson, Jewell, Pinson, Crews, Simpson, White, Williams. No: Coffey, Dorsey, Sebring, Long, Kinsler, Etheridge, Black, Hand, Kelly, Cunningham, C. Brown, Shields, Ratliff, Breedlove, Wood, Finch, Marchman, Fernandez, Griffis, Adams, Lawler, Dowis, Calhoun, Peek, Hawthorne, J. Jackson, Mashburn, Cooper, Lancaster, Hodges, Newton, Boland, Warren, Armstrong, Griffin, Tidwell, Emery, J. Brown, Drew, Masters, Montgomery, Tenoschok, Colvard, J. Miller, P. Brown, McAllister, Beggs.) [/i] Other related items: AJC - Feb 27, 2019 - [url=https://www.ajc.com/blog/get-schooled/bill-would-allow-home-schoolers-play-public-school-teams/HcFMQJb7EWXQhrCV978cxJ/]"Bill would allow home-schoolers to play on public school teams"[/url] 2019-2020 Regular Session - SB 163 - [url=http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display/20192020/SB/163]"Tim Tebow Act" or "Equal Opportunity for Access in Education Act"[/url] AJC - Mar 7, 2019 - [url=https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-education/georgia-senate-approves-tim-tebow-act-for-home-schooled-students/368Yd1QO46hIGFVjwtkDpL/]"Georgia Senate approves ‘Tim Tebow’ Act for home schooled students"[/url] Apr 16, 2019 - [url=https://allongeorgia.com/georgia-state-politics/ghsa-votes-to-keep-homeschoolers-out/]"GHSA Votes to Keep Homeschoolers Out"[/url]
It was interesting (to me, at least) that this issue of home school athletes participating in GHSA activities was discussed and voted on just a few months ago, April 2019.

It appears this vote was in regards to allowing home school athletes to compete for the school in their attendance zone. This is different than the concept of allowing them to participate "unattached" in "non-team" sports.

GEORGIA HIGH SCHOOL ASSOCIATION
MEETING MINUTES (link)
STATE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
April 15, 2019
BOARD OF TRUSTEES

The committee RECOMMENDED:
1. Proposal to allow "home schooled" students to participate in GHSA activities for the member school in whose attendance zone they reside. Decisions regarding participation, grade validation and discipline are determined by the local education agency.

MOTION FAILED (19-47 Roll Call Vote #2 -
Yes: Horton, Turner, Barton, Weyher, May, Craft, C. Miller, Brewington, R. Jackson, Battles, Daniel, Luke, Thompson, Jewell, Pinson, Crews, Simpson, White, Williams.
No: Coffey, Dorsey, Sebring, Long, Kinsler, Etheridge, Black, Hand, Kelly, Cunningham, C. Brown, Shields, Ratliff, Breedlove, Wood, Finch, Marchman, Fernandez, Griffis, Adams, Lawler, Dowis, Calhoun, Peek, Hawthorne, J. Jackson, Mashburn, Cooper, Lancaster, Hodges, Newton, Boland, Warren, Armstrong, Griffin, Tidwell, Emery, J. Brown, Drew, Masters, Montgomery, Tenoschok, Colvard, J. Miller, P. Brown, McAllister, Beggs.)


Other related items:

AJC - Feb 27, 2019 - "Bill would allow home-schoolers to play on public school teams"

2019-2020 Regular Session - SB 163 - "Tim Tebow Act" or "Equal Opportunity for Access in Education Act"

AJC - Mar 7, 2019 - "Georgia Senate approves 'Tim Tebow' Act for home schooled students"

Apr 16, 2019 - "GHSA Votes to Keep Homeschoolers Out"
09/16/2019 7:16:40 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 123
How does this work? [b]d) Eighth grade students participating on a sub-varsity team may only participate in 60% of the number of games allotted to the varsity team in that sport. Eighth grade students may not participate in more sub-varsity and middle school contests combined than the number the GHSA allows for varsity competition in that respective sport. [/b] I am reading that as you can run the 8th grader in both JV and middle school races just not at the same meet? Using my team as an example I choose run my 8th graders JV one weekend and then turn around the next weekend at a meet with middle school and run them middle school. At the end of season I just need to have no more than 5 JV races (excluding region) and 4 middle school races they ran for the team. Just don't go over the 10 race limit for varsity.
How does this work?

d) Eighth grade students participating on a sub-varsity team may only participate in 60% of the number of games allotted to the varsity team in that sport. Eighth grade students may not participate in more sub-varsity and middle school contests combined than the number the GHSA allows for varsity
competition in that respective sport.


I am reading that as you can run the 8th grader in both JV and middle school races just not at the same meet? Using my team as an example I choose run my 8th graders JV one weekend and then turn around the next weekend at a meet with middle school and run them middle school. At the end of season I just need to have no more than 5 JV races (excluding region) and 4 middle school races they ran for the team. Just don't go over the 10 race limit for varsity.
09/17/2019 9:29:36 AM
Power User
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 202
@AlphaCrush I would love to hear the rationale for not allowing this. These parents pay the taxes for their school system, why should choosing not to take their classes keep them from choosing to participate on their athletic teams? Not saying one is right over the other, just want to know the arguments. I'm currently leaning toward let them participate.
@AlphaCrush

I would love to hear the rationale for not allowing this. These parents pay the taxes for their school system, why should choosing not to take their classes keep them from choosing to participate on their athletic teams? Not saying one is right over the other, just want to know the arguments. I'm currently leaning toward let them participate.
09/17/2019 10:00:52 AM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 19
@8MileGoat GHSA is not tax payer funded. Schools choose to join it and choose to accept their rules. With that being said, GHSA wants to ensure an even playing field particularly related to home-schooled athletes and middle school athletes and their academic eligibility. Who vets the quality of a home school education? Often times these are extremely bright young people but it could be a work around just to have a child train all day. The social/emotional needs of middle school children are drastically different than high school children. An 18 year old woman and a 12 or 13 year old girl do not need to be hanging out together regardless of one's respective speed over 5K cross country.
@8MileGoat

GHSA is not tax payer funded. Schools choose to join it and choose to accept their rules.

With that being said, GHSA wants to ensure an even playing field particularly related to home-schooled athletes and middle school athletes and their academic eligibility. Who vets the quality of a home school education? Often times these are extremely bright young people but it could be a work around just to have a child train all day.

The social/emotional needs of middle school children are drastically different than high school children. An 18 year old woman and a 12 or 13 year old girl do not need to be hanging out together regardless of one's respective speed over 5K cross country.
09/17/2019 10:03:15 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 95
@8MileGoat I didn't know much about the topic of home schooled students and high school sports other than what was found in the GHSA constitution, specifically regarding restrictions of "unattached" athletes participating in track & field and cross country. The posts I've made in this thread are the result of a bit of research I did to understand the history of the topic and, perhaps, some of the pros and cons. I'm still looking for information regarding the numbers of home schooled students participating in track & field and cross country in the states where it is allowed...I'm curious to know how many athletes we could expect here in Georgia if some restrictions were lifted. I also have learned that the rules differ among the states that do allow participation. Personally, I'm in favor of allowing home schooled athletes to participate in cross country meets, for example, as individuals, not as part of a team. This is similar to how USATF treats unattached athletes (athletes must be members of a USATF club to be scored as a team.) Some additional information I've reviewed, from [url=https://hslda.org/content/]hslda.org[/url] - Home School Legal Defense Association [url=https://hslda.org/content/docs/nche/issues/s/state_sports.asp]"Do Homeschoolers Have Equal Access to Public School Sports?"[/url] [url=https://hslda.org/docs/nche/issues/e/equal_access.pdf]"State Laws Concerning Participation of Homeschool Students in Public School Activities"[/url]
@8MileGoat I didn't know much about the topic of home schooled students and high school sports other than what was found in the GHSA constitution, specifically regarding restrictions of "unattached" athletes participating in track & field and cross country. The posts I've made in this thread are the result of a bit of research I did to understand the history of the topic and, perhaps, some of the pros and cons.

I'm still looking for information regarding the numbers of home schooled students participating in track & field and cross country in the states where it is allowed...I'm curious to know how many athletes we could expect here in Georgia if some restrictions were lifted. I also have learned that the rules differ among the states that do allow participation.

Personally, I'm in favor of allowing home schooled athletes to participate in cross country meets, for example, as individuals, not as part of a team. This is similar to how USATF treats unattached athletes (athletes must be members of a USATF club to be scored as a team.)

Some additional information I've reviewed, from hslda.org - Home School Legal Defense Association

"Do Homeschoolers Have Equal Access to Public School Sports?"

"State Laws Concerning Participation of Homeschool Students in Public School Activities"
09/17/2019 10:32:02 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 150
I know that there are a couple of home school associations that have teams that play in what used to be the GICCA. HALO (in the Bishop, GA area) as well as CGAA (in the Macon/Warner Robins area). I know that CGAA also did run in some races as a team over the past years. This way they are not unattached, but part of a team. There is no reason why a Homeschool could not come onto milesplit and create a team called "Name Homeschool" and enter it into meets.
I know that there are a couple of home school associations that have teams that play in what used to be the GICCA. HALO (in the Bishop, GA area) as well as CGAA (in the Macon/Warner Robins area). I know that CGAA also did run in some races as a team over the past years. This way they are not unattached, but part of a team. There is no reason why a Homeschool could not come onto milesplit and create a team called "Name Homeschool" and enter it into meets.
09/17/2019 11:11:15 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 123
@Eric_Heintz Ouch man! That hurt. I certainly see your point about the [b]"18 year old woman" and the "12 year old child"[/b]. Seeing as a number of my 8th graders are sometimes older than the 9th graders it may or may not make the point debatable. Also anything involving the team has adults at it to monitor the [b]"hanging out"[/b]. The main reason I (Marietta) choose to not run a middle school program is I simply do not want to staff and supervise another program at the middle school (grades 6-8 )when interest level has not been there. We usually have about 50 runners grades 8th-12th each year. Trust me, if interest was there we would be doing it.
@Eric_Heintz

Ouch man! That hurt. I certainly see your point about the "18 year old woman" and the "12 year old child". Seeing as a number of my 8th graders are sometimes older than the 9th graders it may or may not make the point debatable. Also anything involving the team has adults at it to monitor the "hanging out".

The main reason I (Marietta) choose to not run a middle school program is I simply do not want to staff and supervise another program at the middle school (grades 6-8 )when interest level has not been there. We usually have about 50 runners grades 8th-12th each year. Trust me, if interest was there we would be doing it.
09/17/2019 12:27:54 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 19
@BlackJack31 Not a personal attack in any way! Just my general thoughts directed at nobody. Jack, you know I respect your work. It is interesting because there are almost no other sports where an 8th grade student can compete at the same level as a 12th grade student other than girls distance running. I definitely struggle with private schools allowing students not currently enrolled at the school or a traditional feeder school to compete on their JV squads. By traditional feeder I mean something like a Catholic primary school feeding a Catholic high school. Example, Marist COULD allow 8th graders enrolled at Our Lady of Assumption or really any middle school to compete on their JV team. Marist doesn't do this, never has, and never will, but they or any private school COULD. This is a massive loop hole in the GHSA rules. Think about this for other sports -- what if a private school allowed 8th graders at local public schools to play on the private school JV football team which they legally can. JV sometimes (often) practices with varsity. Said 8th graders get a varsity football experience. Do you think those students would be more likely to go to that private school? Do you think those schools would be more likely to admit those students? I am actually supportive of home schooled athletes that meet a certain eligibility requirement (TBD) competing at invitationals as long as they are not factored into the team scores. I am less comfortable with home schooled athletes competing on their local public school teams which is what I think happens in Florida.
@BlackJack31

Not a personal attack in any way! Just my general thoughts directed at nobody. Jack, you know I respect your work.

It is interesting because there are almost no other sports where an 8th grade student can compete at the same level as a 12th grade student other than girls distance running.

I definitely struggle with private schools allowing students not currently enrolled at the school or a traditional feeder school to compete on their JV squads. By traditional feeder I mean something like a Catholic primary school feeding a Catholic high school. Example, Marist COULD allow 8th graders enrolled at Our Lady of Assumption or really any middle school to compete on their JV team. Marist doesn't do this, never has, and never will, but they or any private school COULD. This is a massive loop hole in the GHSA rules. Think about this for other sports -- what if a private school allowed 8th graders at local public schools to play on the private school JV football team which they legally can. JV sometimes (often) practices with varsity. Said 8th graders get a varsity football experience. Do you think those students would be more likely to go to that private school? Do you think those schools would be more likely to admit those students?

I am actually supportive of home schooled athletes that meet a certain eligibility requirement (TBD) competing at invitationals as long as they are not factored into the team scores. I am less comfortable with home schooled athletes competing on their local public school teams which is what I think happens in Florida.
09/17/2019 2:29:57 PM
Power User
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 202
@Eric_Heintz I don't understand why one would be uncomfortable with a home school athlete competing with their local high school. How is that student any different than their neighbor other than choosing to take classes from home vs hop on the bus in the morning? What am I missing? (this is with the assumption the academics are verified and the athlete is academically eligible). As for the taxes and GHSA, tomato tomato, bottom line is the school collects money from taxpayers and also pays GHSA. Money is money, just because its not earmarked for GHSA doesn't mean they don't support local high school athletics with GHSA through their tax dollars. I've decided yes, they do have a case that they should be able to participate in my opinion. On another note, why would a public school want a private school athlete to compete on their JV team who has no intention of going to their high school?
@Eric_Heintz

I don't understand why one would be uncomfortable with a home school athlete competing with their local high school. How is that student any different than their neighbor other than choosing to take classes from home vs hop on the bus in the morning? What am I missing? (this is with the assumption the academics are verified and the athlete is academically eligible).

As for the taxes and GHSA, tomato tomato, bottom line is the school collects money from taxpayers and also pays GHSA. Money is money, just because its not earmarked for GHSA doesn't mean they don't support local high school athletics with GHSA through their tax dollars. I've decided yes, they do have a case that they should be able to participate in my opinion.

On another note, why would a public school want a private school athlete to compete on their JV team who has no intention of going to their high school?

You must be logged in to comment.

Click Here to Log In.