Carrollton Invitational
08/28/2019 3:03:54 PM
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Good Afternoon Cross Country Coaching world! I am curious to what race some of the top teams in the state are going to run at the Carrollton race in a couple of weeks? Are they going to choose to run in the Championship race or their classification race? Remember you can run in your Classification race or you can run up, but you can't run down.
Good Afternoon Cross Country Coaching world!

I am curious to what race some of the top teams in the state are going to run at the Carrollton race in a couple of weeks? Are they going to choose to run in the Championship race or their classification race? Remember you can run in your Classification race or you can run up, but you can't run down.
08/28/2019 3:12:18 PM
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@Sorrells28 Harrison is not coming this year, however if we were attending, we would look to race in the earliest race we were eligible for. At Carrollton, to us it's more of seeing the course and learning how to race it, rather than seeing stout competition. So this year, we would have run the 7A/6A races. I've always felt there are too many races at Orthopedic and therefore get spread too thin. Good luck though.
@Sorrells28 Harrison is not coming this year, however if we were attending, we would look to race in the earliest race we were eligible for.

At Carrollton, to us it's more of seeing the course and learning how to race it, rather than seeing stout competition.

So this year, we would have run the 7A/6A races.

I've always felt there are too many races at Orthopedic and therefore get spread too thin.

Good luck though.
08/29/2019 9:44:13 AM
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We really live too far away for it to be practical for us to make two trips to Carrollton. Is there a video of the entire course available that can be shown to my runners and talk about the course and strategies for running it?
We really live too far away for it to be practical for us to make two trips to Carrollton. Is there a video of the entire course available that can be shown to my runners and talk about the course and strategies for running it?
08/29/2019 12:20:22 PM
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We'll be there and plan on running in every possible race. 1-7 championship, 8-15 in the 6a/7a, next 7 in JV champ, all the remaining in the open race. ... of course, if you allowed us to run 10 instead of 7, I would divide it up differently. Any chance of that happening? In my opinion, these earlier season races are great for 10 runners as teams continue to try and establish a varsity squad. Just my 2 cents. We'll be there either way.
We'll be there and plan on running in every possible race. 1-7 championship, 8-15 in the 6a/7a, next 7 in JV champ, all the remaining in the open race.

... of course, if you allowed us to run 10 instead of 7, I would divide it up differently. Any chance of that happening? In my opinion, these earlier season races are great for 10 runners as teams continue to try and establish a varsity squad. Just my 2 cents. We'll be there either way.
08/29/2019 1:14:03 PM
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@ParkviewCoachDXC Last year we were not allowed to run championship & then run our 8-15 in 6A/7A race. They had to wait to run JV races when it was very hot and we had very poor performances. We are not returning this year.
@ParkviewCoachDXC
Last year we were not allowed to run championship & then run our 8-15 in 6A/7A race. They had to wait to run JV races when it was very hot and we had very poor performances. We are not returning this year.
08/29/2019 1:30:36 PM
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West Forsyth will run 1-7 in championships for guys and girls. 8-14 in 6A/7A guys. The rest of the team will be elsewhere due to reasons stated above. Late afternoon hot race on a tough course would not be super helpful to our less experienced, less fit athletes early in the season.
West Forsyth will run 1-7 in championships for guys and girls. 8-14 in 6A/7A guys. The rest of the team will be elsewhere due to reasons stated above. Late afternoon hot race on a tough course would not be super helpful to our less experienced, less fit athletes early in the season.
08/29/2019 2:36:48 PM
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@acarr6453 I don't know why that happen last year, but that shouldn't happen. I am sorry that doesn't make you want to return. We always welcome quality programs like Milton to the Invitational. Tillery from West Forsyth mentioned that he was going to do that very thing this year. I am going to do the same thing as well. The only thing I have heard from Coach Musselwhite concerning restrictions is a team running down instead of up for Classifications. I have always come to this race as a coach because I see the benefit of racing on the course where the championship race will be held. I try to do the same thing for Region Championship races. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I picked that little tidbit of coaching from Joe Vigil. He seems to know a little bit about running. Some people call him outdated, but if I remember correctly he is the only coach to have a team perfect score at a National Championship. In regards to location...that is always going to be tough in a state like Georgia. We have a very large State when we are talking about land mass. And heat is heat in the south. Sometimes we got lucky and catch a break on a cool day in August and September. If I remember correctly, Wingfoot had to shorten there race day schedule once and there race is only a week later.
@acarr6453

I don't know why that happen last year, but that shouldn't happen. I am sorry that doesn't make you want to return. We always welcome quality programs like Milton to the Invitational. Tillery from West Forsyth mentioned that he was going to do that very thing this year. I am going to do the same thing as well. The only thing I have heard from Coach Musselwhite concerning restrictions is a team running down instead of up for Classifications. I have always come to this race as a coach because I see the benefit of racing on the course where the championship race will be held. I try to do the same thing for Region Championship races. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but I picked that little tidbit of coaching from Joe Vigil. He seems to know a little bit about running. Some people call him outdated, but if I remember correctly he is the only coach to have a team perfect score at a National Championship. In regards to location...that is always going to be tough in a state like Georgia. We have a very large State when we are talking about land mass. And heat is heat in the south. Sometimes we got lucky and catch a break on a cool day in August and September. If I remember correctly, Wingfoot had to shorten there race day schedule once and there race is only a week later.
08/29/2019 3:20:02 PM
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@Sorrells28 Can I get some clarification on something? I know the rule changed a few years ago but I want to make sure I understand it correctly. According to the GHSA: [quote]The maximum number of competition dates in Cross Country shall be 10, exclusive of region and state competitions. 1. It is permissible for coaches to use “split squads” during the regular season. However, the use of split squads will count as two (2) of that school’s maximum allowed competitions. 3. No individual athlete may compete in more than one (1) race per day.[/quote] If I enter kids in both the Championship Varsity race and the 6A-7A varsity races, does that count as "split squads" or is it just considered one meet? After all, it is, in fact, the same meet -- just different races. Like West, I am bringing my JV runners to another meet but would like to to know if my team is participating in 2 meets that day or 3?
@Sorrells28

Can I get some clarification on something? I know the rule changed a few years ago but I want to make sure I understand it correctly.

According to the GHSA:

The maximum number of competition dates in Cross Country shall be 10, exclusive of region and state competitions.
1. It is permissible for coaches to use "split squads" during the regular season. However, the use of split squads will
count as two (2) of that school's maximum allowed competitions.
3. No individual athlete may compete in more than one (1) race per day.


If I enter kids in both the Championship Varsity race and the 6A-7A varsity races, does that count as "split squads" or is it just considered one meet? After all, it is, in fact, the same meet -- just different races.

Like West, I am bringing my JV runners to another meet but would like to to know if my team is participating in 2 meets that day or 3?
08/29/2019 6:06:48 PM
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@coachtigue It's one "competition date" at Carrollton for Varsity & one for JV. The wording in the rules was changed from "meet" (or "race" or whatever it used to be) to "competition date" for that very reason. So, Carrollton is just one meet for Varsity & one for JV.
@coachtigue It's one "competition date" at Carrollton for Varsity & one for JV. The wording in the rules was changed from "meet" (or "race" or whatever it used to be) to "competition date" for that very reason. So, Carrollton is just one meet for Varsity & one for JV.
08/29/2019 6:41:10 PM
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@GACARTER Ok, thanks!
@GACARTER

Ok, thanks!
08/30/2019 8:28:52 AM
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Lovett will be running 7 in the championship, next 7 in the 1-2-3A varsity, and all others in the open division. Jimmy- any chance we will see a schedule change in the future? It would be nice to mix in a larger JV race earlier in the day(seems to be popular demand), maybe limit it to 15 or 20 athletes per team. 3 classification "varsity" races could probably be combined into one varsity division and make room for a large JV race and shorten the day overall. Maybe even consider a 7:30AM start, too? It would also be cool to see the return of a Last Chance meet or allow a late season practice day in the place of Last Chance.
Lovett will be running 7 in the championship, next 7 in the 1-2-3A varsity, and all others in the open division.

Jimmy- any chance we will see a schedule change in the future? It would be nice to mix in a larger JV race earlier in the day(seems to be popular demand), maybe limit it to 15 or 20 athletes per team. 3 classification "varsity" races could probably be combined into one varsity division and make room for a large JV race and shorten the day overall. Maybe even consider a 7:30AM start, too?

It would also be cool to see the return of a Last Chance meet or allow a late season practice day in the place of Last Chance.
08/30/2019 10:16:22 AM
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Agree with Coach Mayer! Would love to have a 2nd Meet there before State.
Agree with Coach Mayer! Would love to have a 2nd Meet there before State.
08/31/2019 10:57:10 AM
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@GACARTER So even if you do a split squad and compete in multiple varsity races it’s still only counts as one? When was this change made? I know I was still interpreting it as counting as two meets last season. Are we now going to see an increase in stronger teams putting their JV into other varsity races as a result?
@GACARTER

So even if you do a split squad and compete in multiple varsity races it's still only counts as one? When was this change made? I know I was still interpreting it as counting as two meets last season.

Are we now going to see an increase in stronger teams putting their JV into other varsity races as a result?
09/01/2019 11:33:53 AM
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@MaristXCcoach Yes. As long as it's multiple varsity races at the same meet, it only counts as one meet. Change was made a few years ago. I forget exactly when. I believe it was toward the end of Dr. Swearingen's tenure at the GHSA, as I remember him speaking to the sub-committee supporting that proposal. Similar to volleyball and other sports that have tournaments where they play multiple matches at the same tournament. It still only counts as 1 "game date". It helps meets that, for narrow-course or large-field reasons, have to contest multiple varsity and/or JV races at the same meet. No kids are running in multiple races at the same meet. Not sure it'll impact teams any more than it already does (or doesn't). It's more of a meet director decision as to allowing teams to run their 2nd seven in a different varsity race vs a JV race. I know Coach Musselwhite has allowed that for a while. A few others have, as well. But, some meets don't allow that, which is also fine. Even those who were still counting meets with 2 varsity races as 2 meets, I don't think it really short-changed anyone on a varsity level. It's hard to schedule more than 10 meets (not counting region & state) between the GHSA's start date & region date.
@MaristXCcoach Yes. As long as it's multiple varsity races at the same meet, it only counts as one meet. Change was made a few years ago. I forget exactly when. I believe it was toward the end of Dr. Swearingen's tenure at the GHSA, as I remember him speaking to the sub-committee supporting that proposal. Similar to volleyball and other sports that have tournaments where they play multiple matches at the same tournament. It still only counts as 1 "game date".

It helps meets that, for narrow-course or large-field reasons, have to contest multiple varsity and/or JV races at the same meet. No kids are running in multiple races at the same meet.

Not sure it'll impact teams any more than it already does (or doesn't). It's more of a meet director decision as to allowing teams to run their 2nd seven in a different varsity race vs a JV race. I know Coach Musselwhite has allowed that for a while. A few others have, as well. But, some meets don't allow that, which is also fine.

Even those who were still counting meets with 2 varsity races as 2 meets, I don't think it really short-changed anyone on a varsity level. It's hard to schedule more than 10 meets (not counting region & state) between the GHSA's start date & region date.
09/01/2019 8:09:00 PM
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@GACARTER Change was made in 2014 rules...SECTION 4 CROSS COUNTRY [url=https://www.ghsa.net/sites/default/files/documents/Constitution/GHSA_CBL_2013-2014.pdf]2013-2014 rules[/url] D. The maximum number of [i][b]meets[/b][/i] in Cross Country shall be ten (10), exclusive of region and state competitions. [url=https://www.ghsa.net/sites/default/files/documents/Constitution/GHSA_CBL_2014-2015.pdf]change made in 2014-2015 rules[/url] (to present) D. The maximum number of [i][b]competition dates[/b][/i] in Cross Country shall be 10, exclusive of region and state competitions. This is another section in the rules that is applicable... 2.60 - INTERSCHOLASTIC CONTESTS AND PRACTICES 2.62 The GHSA shall provide rules and regulations for competition among member schools for those competitive activities listed in the GHSA Constitution and By-Laws. (e)(3) In the sports of Cross Country, Golf, Swimming, Tennis and Wrestling, a school may use a “split squad” at two regular season events on the same day at the varsity or sub-varsity levels. Both of the contests must be counted against the total number of contests allowed in that sport. Individual players may not exceed the total number of contests allowed at the varsity level of that sport.
@GACARTER Change was made in 2014 rules...SECTION 4 CROSS COUNTRY

2013-2014 rules
D. The maximum number of meets in Cross Country shall be ten (10), exclusive of region and state competitions.

change made in 2014-2015 rules (to present)
D. The maximum number of competition dates in Cross Country shall be 10, exclusive of region and state competitions.

This is another section in the rules that is applicable...

2.60 - INTERSCHOLASTIC CONTESTS AND PRACTICES
2.62 The GHSA shall provide rules and regulations for competition among member schools for those competitive activities listed in the GHSA Constitution and By-Laws.
(e)(3) In the sports of Cross Country, Golf, Swimming, Tennis and Wrestling, a school may use a "split squad" at two regular season events on the same day at the varsity or sub-varsity levels. Both of the contests must be counted against the total number of contests allowed in that sport. Individual players may not exceed the total number of contests allowed at the varsity level of that sport.
09/03/2019 3:07:42 PM
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@Lovettxc_CoachMayer Those are great ideas that I will discuss with Coach Musselwhite for the future. No-one is above change or reproach. We were just discussing the other day of bringing back the Last Chance with some changes to it. Especially for those coaches who are real serious about getting their kids on the course, even if it is their "future" Varsity (J.V. who have a chance to make the top 7) kids who will be racing on the course the next season.
@Lovettxc_CoachMayer

Those are great ideas that I will discuss with Coach Musselwhite for the future. No-one is above change or reproach. We were just discussing the other day of bringing back the Last Chance with some changes to it. Especially for those coaches who are real serious about getting their kids on the course, even if it is their "future" Varsity (J.V. who have a chance to make the top 7) kids who will be racing on the course the next season.
09/05/2019 9:30:39 PM
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@Sorrells28 I like the idea of a late-season “JV State” by divisions... this could put a nice spin on last chance.
@Sorrells28

I like the idea of a late-season "JV State" by divisions... this could put a nice spin on last chance.

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