4x8 proposal data vs. voting results--link to data
10/03/2018 7:11:40 AM
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Coaches, We were copied on emails sent to region coaches tonight whose region representative voted against the data collected in Coach Carter's thorough survey, and copied to each representative asking for an explanation why they did not vote in accordance with their region coaches. We have uploaded the documents including: -the actual proposal -survey results -actual region voting "Yes" or "No" by coaches -data comparing actual votes to the survey data compiled today The final page indicates what the results would have been if the data from the poll was used. You can view this information [b][url=https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/ce80-1665897/Addition_of_the_4x800_to_State_Series_Track___Field_Proposal___Data.pdf]HERE[/url].[/b]
Coaches,

We were copied on emails sent to region coaches tonight whose region representative voted against the data collected in Coach Carter's thorough survey, and copied to each representative asking for an explanation why they did not vote in accordance with their region coaches.

We have uploaded the documents including:
-the actual proposal
-survey results
-actual region voting "Yes" or "No" by coaches
-data comparing actual votes to the survey data compiled today

The final page indicates what the results would have been if the data from the poll was used.

You can view this information HERE.
10/03/2018 8:24:40 AM
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@GATFXCCA This is an excellent compilation of data. It is appalling that these representatives voted against what their coaches said. These representatives are elected by the schools in their region, so the ADs from these schools have the ability to vote them out when they fail to represent their interests. Coaches: talk to your athletic director about this if you haven't already done so. Encourage them to reach out to the region representative to find out why they voted against what you and your fellow coaches wanted. Allegedly, Johnny Seabrooks convinced many of the representatives to vote the way they did. Whether deliberate or not, he misled many of them by claiming that the addition of this event would not work in the schedules at the state meet sites. This is simply not true, and everyone at that meeting had access to the proposed schedules which had the approval of each site's host. To me, this is equally appalling as he is an official representative of the National Federation of High Schools for this area.
@GATFXCCA

This is an excellent compilation of data. It is appalling that these representatives voted against what their coaches said. These representatives are elected by the schools in their region, so the ADs from these schools have the ability to vote them out when they fail to represent their interests. Coaches: talk to your athletic director about this if you haven't already done so. Encourage them to reach out to the region representative to find out why they voted against what you and your fellow coaches wanted.

Allegedly, Johnny Seabrooks convinced many of the representatives to vote the way they did. Whether deliberate or not, he misled many of them by claiming that the addition of this event would not work in the schedules at the state meet sites. This is simply not true, and everyone at that meeting had access to the proposed schedules which had the approval of each site's host. To me, this is equally appalling as he is an official representative of the National Federation of High Schools for this area.
10/04/2018 8:55:27 AM
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The way I interpret what occurred is a person used his persuasion/bullying to vote on an agenda that was his own. He blatantly disallowed himself to considered the overwhelming majority of stakeholders in the sport (the coaches themselves) were in support of this proposal. It would seem to me that whatever position of power that this individual has, that power should be stripped of him. This is a simple "what's best for me, not what's best for the team" situation. That type of leadership should not be tolerated. After all, that is not what we demand of the athletes we coach.
The way I interpret what occurred is a person used his persuasion/bullying to vote on an agenda that was his own. He blatantly disallowed himself to considered the overwhelming majority of stakeholders in the sport (the coaches themselves) were in support of this proposal. It would seem to me that whatever position of power that this individual has, that power should be stripped of him. This is a simple "what's best for me, not what's best for the team" situation. That type of leadership should not be tolerated. After all, that is not what we demand of the athletes we coach.
10/05/2018 11:44:05 AM
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[quote=Sorrells28]The way I interpret what occurred is a person used his persuasion/bullying to vote on an agenda that was his own. He blatantly disallowed himself to considered the overwhelming majority of stakeholders in the sport (the coaches themselves) were in support of this proposal. It would seem to me that whatever position of power that this individual has, that power should be stripped of him. This is a simple "what's best for me, not what's best for the team" situation. That type of leadership should not be tolerated. After all, that is not what we demand of the athletes we coach. [/quote] Agreed!!!
Sorrells28 wrote:
The way I interpret what occurred is a person used his persuasion/bullying to vote on an agenda that was his own. He blatantly disallowed himself to considered the overwhelming majority of stakeholders in the sport (the coaches themselves) were in support of this proposal. It would seem to me that whatever position of power that this individual has, that power should be stripped of him. This is a simple "what's best for me, not what's best for the team" situation. That type of leadership should not be tolerated. After all, that is not what we demand of the athletes we coach.


Agreed!!!
10/06/2018 11:12:42 AM
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Agree 100%, as well. Members of the Executive Committee are elected to that position by the members of the region. That happens every 2 years, I believe, or in conjunction with reclassification. As for the at-large members, you can make your voice heard to those organizations, as well. While there may be someone with a large amount of influence who allegedly said some inaccurate things about the 4x8, that person (to my knowledge) is not a voting member of the Executive Committee. But, by making your opinions known to the organizations below (and the GHSA), we can reduce that person's influence so that the voice of one or two people no longer trumps the voices of the majority of the track coaches in Georgia. Georgia Athletic Directors Association - www.gadaonline.net Georgia Athletic Coaches Association - www.gacacoaches.com National Federation of High Schools - www.nfhs.org The head of the GADA is a region rep (who voted for the 4x8, by the way). The head of the GACA is very good about responding to e-mails. I have not had much luck reaching the NFHS Section 3 (section that includes Georgia) representative.
Agree 100%, as well. Members of the Executive Committee are elected to that position by the members of the region. That happens every 2 years, I believe, or in conjunction with reclassification.

As for the at-large members, you can make your voice heard to those organizations, as well. While there may be someone with a large amount of influence who allegedly said some inaccurate things about the 4x8, that person (to my knowledge) is not a voting member of the Executive Committee. But, by making your opinions known to the organizations below (and the GHSA), we can reduce that person's influence so that the voice of one or two people no longer trumps the voices of the majority of the track coaches in Georgia.

Georgia Athletic Directors Association - www.gadaonline.net
Georgia Athletic Coaches Association - www.gacacoaches.com
National Federation of High Schools - www.nfhs.org

The head of the GADA is a region rep (who voted for the 4x8, by the way). The head of the GACA is very good about responding to e-mails. I have not had much luck reaching the NFHS Section 3 (section that includes Georgia) representative.
10/07/2018 1:23:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2018
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I have a few thoughts concerning the attempt to add the 4x800 to a contested event at the state level. First of all let me say that in my opinion Chris Carter has done a great job as a very passionate and articulate advocate for the coaches who support this proposal. I would urge him to continue to pursue this goal and try to assess what worked and what didn't in this latest attempt. I also want to speak to what I feel is the way Johnny Seabrooks has been unfairly characterized. To suggest that he has bullied 40+ members of the executive board to vote in a certain way, I believe is absurd. He has a right to voice his opposition or support for any matter that comes before the committee. Coach Seabrooks has devoted much of his adult life working for the betterment of track and field in this state. I along with many others can attest first hand to this. I would suggest in going forward that you identify someone as passionate an advocate as the one or one's in opposition to present your case before the committee. Polls are a great way to present your rational, but executive committee members don't always view things through the same lens as coaches and must be convinced otherwise. After all, they do in fact have the final say. Best of luck. Scott Starr
I have a few thoughts concerning the attempt to add the 4x800 to a contested event at the state level. First of all let me say that in my opinion Chris Carter has done a great job as a very passionate and articulate advocate for the coaches who support this proposal. I would urge him to continue to pursue this goal and try to assess what worked and what didn't in this latest attempt. I also want to speak to what I feel is the way Johnny Seabrooks has been unfairly characterized. To suggest that he has bullied 40+ members of the executive board to vote in a certain way, I believe is absurd. He has a right to voice his opposition or support for any matter that comes before the committee. Coach Seabrooks has devoted much of his adult life working for the betterment of track and field in this state. I along with many others can attest first hand to this. I would suggest in going forward that you identify someone as passionate an advocate as the one or one's in opposition to present your case before the committee. Polls are a great way to present your rational, but executive committee members don't always view things through the same lens as coaches and must be convinced otherwise. After all, they do in fact have the final say. Best of luck. Scott Starr
10/07/2018 10:59:53 PM
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[quote=scott starr]I have a few thoughts concerning the attempt to add the 4x800 to a contested event at the state level. First of all let me say that in my opinion Chris Carter has done a great job as a very passionate and articulate advocate for the coaches who support this proposal. I would urge him to continue to pursue this goal and try to assess what worked and what didn't in this latest attempt. I also want to speak to what I feel is the way Johnny Seabrooks has been unfairly characterized. To suggest that he has bullied 40+ members of the executive board to vote in a certain way, I believe is absurd. He has a right to voice his opposition or support for any matter that comes before the committee. Coach Seabrooks has devoted much of his adult life working for the betterment of track and field in this state. I along with many others can attest first hand to this. I would suggest in going forward that you identify someone as passionate an advocate as the one or one's in opposition to present your case before the committee. Polls are a great way to present your rational, but executive committee members don't always view things through the same lens as coaches and must be convinced otherwise. After all, they do in fact have the final say. Best of luck. Scott Starr[/quote] I don’t think it’s fact that he has the right to his opinion, rather the fact that he misled them with untruthful facts.
scott starr wrote:
I have a few thoughts concerning the attempt to add the 4x800 to a contested event at the state level. First of all let me say that in my opinion Chris Carter has done a great job as a very passionate and articulate advocate for the coaches who support this proposal. I would urge him to continue to pursue this goal and try to assess what worked and what didn't in this latest attempt. I also want to speak to what I feel is the way Johnny Seabrooks has been unfairly characterized. To suggest that he has bullied 40+ members of the executive board to vote in a certain way, I believe is absurd. He has a right to voice his opposition or support for any matter that comes before the committee. Coach Seabrooks has devoted much of his adult life working for the betterment of track and field in this state. I along with many others can attest first hand to this. I would suggest in going forward that you identify someone as passionate an advocate as the one or one's in opposition to present your case before the committee. Polls are a great way to present your rational, but executive committee members don't always view things through the same lens as coaches and must be convinced otherwise. After all, they do in fact have the final say. Best of luck. Scott Starr
I don't think it's fact that he has the right to his opinion, rather the fact that he misled them with untruthful facts.
10/07/2018 11:42:30 PM
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I don't blame anyone for having opinions. But, when those in positions of authority & influence use those positions to make sure that their opinions are heard over the opinions of hundreds of others, to me that's an issue. There are some great men & women of integrity who serve on the Executive Committee. But, there are also some who are there for the wrong reasons. Nearly 85% of the United States runs the 4x8, 60% of the head coaches in Georgia want the 4x8 (over 200 head coaches said "yes"), and 70% of the GHSA Board of Trustees approved the proposal. Yet, ~70% of the Executive Committee voted against the proposal. Something is wrong.
I don't blame anyone for having opinions. But, when those in positions of authority & influence use those positions to make sure that their opinions are heard over the opinions of hundreds of others, to me that's an issue. There are some great men & women of integrity who serve on the Executive Committee. But, there are also some who are there for the wrong reasons.

Nearly 85% of the United States runs the 4x8, 60% of the head coaches in Georgia want the 4x8 (over 200 head coaches said "yes"), and 70% of the GHSA Board of Trustees approved the proposal. Yet, ~70% of the Executive Committee voted against the proposal. Something is wrong.
10/08/2018 12:10:06 PM
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So, just to clarify, on page 4 of your attachment, if there is a red -, that means they did not vote in line with what the region's coaches wanted, correct?
So, just to clarify, on page 4 of your attachment, if there is a red -, that means they did not vote in line with what the region's coaches wanted, correct?
10/08/2018 5:33:48 PM
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I don't think Mr. Seabrooks bullied anyone either, I have heard that Johnny had nothing to do with any of the push back against the 4 x 800. However every reason for not having the 4 x 800 is totally not valid. 1. Adding time to the meet is laughable. At Albany you have 1 discus, 1, shot and 1 pole vault pit. Never in my 23 years of going to Albany did any of those events start on time unless they were the first scheduled. A side note the state separated the genders for as long as I can remember pulling coaches from their teaching responsibilities, so I think the time excuse should not be even considered. 2. Favors distance schools. First tell me what a sprint school or a distance school is suppose to look like. 3. Another reason I hear all the time is that small schools don't have enough kids to field a team. Well many big schools have that problem. Some schools are very deep in certain areas and some are not. That is just it. The pole Vault is an event where many schools don't even coach it. Does that mean we should drop the event.
I don't think Mr. Seabrooks bullied anyone either, I have heard that Johnny had nothing to do with any of the push back against the 4 x 800. However every reason for not having the 4 x 800 is totally not valid.
1. Adding time to the meet is laughable. At Albany you have 1 discus, 1, shot and 1 pole vault pit. Never in my 23 years of going to Albany did any of those events start on time unless they were the first scheduled. A side note the state separated the genders for as long as I can remember pulling coaches from their teaching responsibilities, so I think the time excuse should not be even considered.
2. Favors distance schools. First tell me what a sprint school or a distance school is suppose to look like.
3. Another reason I hear all the time is that small schools don't have enough kids to field a team. Well many big schools have that problem. Some schools are very deep in certain areas and some are not. That is just it. The pole Vault is an event where many schools don't even coach it. Does that mean we should drop the event.
10/08/2018 8:09:59 PM
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@BrianRobinson great point! If a team doesn’t have a hurdler they simply don’t run that event. If they don’t have throwers they simply don’t throw. 800m athletes usually practice year round in running sports. Track and Field isn’t some off season sport for most 800m runners and a 4x800m would have given a lot of hard working athletes a chance to compete. The sad thing is that it will take another 2 years or so before it can be voted on again.
@BrianRobinson great point! If a team doesn't have a hurdler they simply don't run that event. If they don't have throwers they simply don't throw. 800m athletes usually practice year round in running sports. Track and Field isn't some off season sport for most 800m runners and a 4x800m would have given a lot of hard working athletes a chance to compete. The sad thing is that it will take another 2 years or so before it can be voted on again.

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