Winder-Barrow meet
09/22/2018 10:22:22 PM
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Before all the data gets screwed up I want to go on record as saying if that course was 5K I'm a slim blonde female rock star! It was a great XC race.
Before all the data gets screwed up I want to go on record as saying if that course was 5K I'm a slim blonde female rock star! It was a great XC race.
09/23/2018 12:19:24 AM
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I need to make 1 thing clear, per MileSpit/FloSports policy, the Editor (yours truly) is not allowed to alter the distance of a race advertised as a 5K. I will leave it open for others more in the know to comment on this. Thanks
I need to make 1 thing clear, per MileSpit/FloSports policy, the Editor (yours truly) is not allowed to alter the distance of a race advertised as a 5K. I will leave it open for others more in the know to comment on this. Thanks
09/23/2018 5:10:57 AM
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@gawebmaster I am not saying it should be you to change it. It looks like there is a common theme of PR race for participating athletes most by about 2 minutes. I really enjoyed the course, but it is going to throw some kinks in the database.
@gawebmaster I am not saying it should be you to change it. It looks like there is a common theme of PR race for participating athletes most by about 2 minutes. I really enjoyed the course, but it is going to throw some kinks in the database.
09/23/2018 11:52:06 AM
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I will join the conversation. Let's say that it is 5k. Speaking only from my opinion, what upsets me as a coach is when we begin to discuss course distances is how do you compare results to other courses throughout the State. So that's what I did. I noticed that some of the competitors at the Winder race ran at the Warpath Invitational last week...7 days ago. For the most part, anyone who races there agrees that the Warpath course is a fair course. The distance is never brought into question about Warpath but it is understood that fast times will happen there. The #1 girl from Creekview proved just that by running 18:02 last week for the victory. But I noticed the girl who placed 3rd at Winder ran an impressive 19:29. Last week on a fast course with serious competition she ran 21:16. In conjunction, the boys winner at the Winder race ran an impressive 15:05. Last week, he was 8th place in 16:14. I could go on and on with different teams and different results. I am not writing this to discredit anyone's program or discredit the race officials. I am bringing into question the direct comparison of the Winder Course vs. Warpath Course. Both are listed as a 5k. And I assumed both were measured with accuracy. So, why is the Winder course racing so much faster than an already fast course. Is it that Warpath is beyond 5k? Is it that the Winder course finishes downhill? I don't know what the answer is. I mean every time someone races fast at Asics Invitational, there is an ongoing debate on the board. No one ever debates if Milton is long, that's for sure. Milton is just a very tough course! If Winder is indeed 5k, you better believe team participation will be up for next years event.
I will join the conversation. Let's say that it is 5k. Speaking only from my opinion, what upsets me as a coach is when we begin to discuss course distances is how do you compare results to other courses throughout the State. So that's what I did. I noticed that some of the competitors at the Winder race ran at the Warpath Invitational last week...7 days ago. For the most part, anyone who races there agrees that the Warpath course is a fair course. The distance is never brought into question about Warpath but it is understood that fast times will happen there. The #1 girl from Creekview proved just that by running 18:02 last week for the victory. But I noticed the girl who placed 3rd at Winder ran an impressive 19:29. Last week on a fast course with serious competition she ran 21:16. In conjunction, the boys winner at the Winder race ran an impressive 15:05. Last week, he was 8th place in 16:14. I could go on and on with different teams and different results. I am not writing this to discredit anyone's program or discredit the race officials. I am bringing into question the direct comparison of the Winder Course vs. Warpath Course. Both are listed as a 5k. And I assumed both were measured with accuracy. So, why is the Winder course racing so much faster than an already fast course. Is it that Warpath is beyond 5k? Is it that the Winder course finishes downhill? I don't know what the answer is. I mean every time someone races fast at Asics Invitational, there is an ongoing debate on the board. No one ever debates if Milton is long, that's for sure. Milton is just a very tough course! If Winder is indeed 5k, you better believe team participation will be up for next years event.
09/23/2018 12:29:57 PM
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Anyone see the Clayton County mid-week race? Lots of mid-week 15:00 5ks...lol. Neither the Winder course or the Clayton course is 5k...let's just be honest here. I doubt that there was any purposeful intent on either course being short, but neither should be used for database or ranking purposes in my opinion.
Anyone see the Clayton County mid-week race? Lots of mid-week 15:00 5ks...lol. Neither the Winder course or the Clayton course is 5k...let's just be honest here. I doubt that there was any purposeful intent on either course being short, but neither should be used for database or ranking purposes in my opinion.
09/23/2018 5:09:31 PM
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Winder has to go in as a 3 mile... but that would require the meet director or coaches at the meet to come together and make it happen. Webmaster doesn’t have that responsibility, it’s the meet directors that let everybody know how long their courses are.
Winder has to go in as a 3 mile... but that would require the meet director or coaches at the meet to come together and make it happen. Webmaster doesn't have that responsibility, it's the meet directors that let everybody know how long their courses are.
09/23/2018 5:55:04 PM
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@samborg isn't the meet director the only one that can change it? I heard the kids say one of the Apple watches had it at 2.78. I don't think that it was intentionally short because it was a good layout, but by the times run it makes it very suspicious and then the chatter from coaches, parents, and athletes you have to scratch your head and question the obvious. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck; well you can quess the rest. It really was a good course to race and I would highly recommend it, but the corners may need a little more width
@samborg isn't the meet director the only one that can change it? I heard the kids say one of the Apple watches had it at 2.78. I don't think that it was intentionally short because it was a good layout, but by the times run it makes it very suspicious and then the chatter from coaches, parents, and athletes you have to scratch your head and question the obvious. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck; well you can quess the rest. It really was a good course to race and I would highly recommend it, but the corners may need a little more width
09/23/2018 6:29:27 PM
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Distance has been adjusted to 3 Mile Run, 5k performances will drop off overnite.
Distance has been adjusted to 3 Mile Run, 5k performances will drop off overnite.
09/23/2018 8:48:35 PM
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@mcorley Aren’t Apple watches illegal in GHSA competition? No comment on the short versus long discussion. But I’m pretty sure all GPS watches are illegal in all GHSA sanctioned races.
@mcorley

Aren't Apple watches illegal in GHSA competition?

No comment on the short versus long discussion. But I'm pretty sure all GPS watches are illegal in all GHSA sanctioned races.
09/24/2018 9:42:16 PM
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For what it is worth, a Flowery Branch male runner had 2.77 on his GPS watch.
For what it is worth, a Flowery Branch male runner had 2.77 on his GPS watch.
09/25/2018 12:56:44 AM
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@jmcartney GPS watches are not taken into account for course distance.
@jmcartney GPS watches are not taken into account for course distance.
09/25/2018 7:20:21 AM
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I see two major issues going on here. I want to address one of them. A few years ago the Tour de France realized that longer stages (200k plus) were actually really boring. There was the breakaway, but other than that, the entire peleton stayed together until the last climb where there was an attack and counterattack. Very predictable. So what they did, was have shorter stages, they found that this increased the likelihood of something unexpected happening. It also led to better racing. Too often the 5k has turned into the 10k on the track. Everyone run in a bunch then in the last 2 laps people start to accelerate, it is honestly boring to watch. There is something to be said about having a 2 mile or 2.5 mile race every now and again. From all accounts, the race on Saturday was great to watch. It might beg the question should there be more later season 2 or 2.5 mile races?
I see two major issues going on here. I want to address one of them. A few years ago the Tour de France realized that longer stages (200k plus) were actually really boring. There was the breakaway, but other than that, the entire peleton stayed together until the last climb where there was an attack and counterattack. Very predictable.

So what they did, was have shorter stages, they found that this increased the likelihood of something unexpected happening. It also led to better racing. Too often the 5k has turned into the 10k on the track. Everyone run in a bunch then in the last 2 laps people start to accelerate, it is honestly boring to watch.

There is something to be said about having a 2 mile or 2.5 mile race every now and again. From all accounts, the race on Saturday was great to watch. It might beg the question should there be more later season 2 or 2.5 mile races?
09/25/2018 7:48:17 AM
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While I disagree that a 10k on the track or a Tour de France break away is boring I will say Yes! There should be options in race distance. Just tell the folks ahead of time that the race is 2m or 2.5m and report it to MileSplit accurately.
While I disagree that a 10k on the track or a Tour de France break away is boring I will say Yes! There should be options in race distance.

Just tell the folks ahead of time that the race is 2m or 2.5m and report it to MileSplit accurately.
09/25/2018 9:14:38 AM
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I am not saying that all people find the 10k or the long stages boring, what was found at the Tour especially is that shorter stages provided a better stage. More people were brought into the race, this increasing the competition and the sense on unknown. I love the 50k in Cross Country skiing for the reason that it takes a certain type of person to be able to be successful at that.
I am not saying that all people find the 10k or the long stages boring, what was found at the Tour especially is that shorter stages provided a better stage. More people were brought into the race, this increasing the competition and the sense on unknown. I love the 50k in Cross Country skiing for the reason that it takes a certain type of person to be able to be successful at that.
09/25/2018 11:24:08 AM
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I don't have a problem with a short race nor a long race, but if either go into milesplit database as a 5k it is going to put a kink in said database. The course at Winder-Barrow provided for great racing. I just think that any time a course runs off by the #'s it should be wheeled for accuracy and submitted to Milesplit as an accurate length so that assumptions can be made based on 5k. If that race would have stayed in the database as a 5k one could assume that at least 5 of the 10 foot locker south Q's would come out of Ga
I don't have a problem with a short race nor a long race, but if either go into milesplit database as a 5k it is going to put a kink in said database. The course at Winder-Barrow provided for great racing. I just think that any time a course runs off by the #'s it should be wheeled for accuracy and submitted to Milesplit as an accurate length so that assumptions can be made based on 5k. If that race would have stayed in the database as a 5k one could assume that at least 5 of the 10 foot locker south Q's would come out of Ga
09/25/2018 4:22:18 PM
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Sign me up for most JV races being 2 miles and opening up the varsity fields in most races to 10, rather than 7, so that coaches can make some fair evaluations of runners who are on the varsity bubble. In my opinion, shorter JV races are more appropriate for younger athletes with less aerobic development and would also make it possible for more runners to join the high school team even if they hadn't been putting in miles all summer. They won't be as good without the training background, but by the end of the season they might be decent. I think the shorter distance also helps the younger athletes learn to race more aggressively and take more chances. Finally, 2 mile JV races change the schedules for large invite races so more athletes run earlier in the day and avoid the worst of the heat. One could argue that JV kids need a chance to learn to race 5K. I can't argue that. Perhaps switch over JV races to 5K starting with October when kids are in better shape, weather cools, etc.
Sign me up for most JV races being 2 miles and opening up the varsity fields in most races to 10, rather than 7, so that coaches can make some fair evaluations of runners who are on the varsity bubble. In my opinion, shorter JV races are more appropriate for younger athletes with less aerobic development and would also make it possible for more runners to join the high school team even if they hadn't been putting in miles all summer. They won't be as good without the training background, but by the end of the season they might be decent. I think the shorter distance also helps the younger athletes learn to race more aggressively and take more chances. Finally, 2 mile JV races change the schedules for large invite races so more athletes run earlier in the day and avoid the worst of the heat.

One could argue that JV kids need a chance to learn to race 5K. I can't argue that. Perhaps switch over JV races to 5K starting with October when kids are in better shape, weather cools, etc.
09/25/2018 5:57:41 PM
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Anyone notice the Clayton County meet had some crazy times as well?
Anyone notice the Clayton County meet had some crazy times as well?
09/25/2018 8:20:28 PM
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The Clayton #3 race maybe needed to be questioned. Why does no one question races like this
The Clayton #3 race maybe needed to be questioned. Why does no one question races like this
09/25/2018 9:03:40 PM
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I have seen the majority of races that people question are the larger invitational type meets, not smaller ones. This is likely explained simply by the number of eyes on the meet. Also, many of the smaller meets might not have people as experienced who instead of simply saying, "Wow! You ran an awesome race!" They might respond by thinking, "it is really hot and humid, this is a really hilly course. The pace was not super fast, how did my kid set a PR by 30 seconds?" I have questioned the length on quite a few courses before, too long as well as too short. I would just like for the course to be published as a correct distance. I do not care what that distance is, but be honest it. Would fewer teams go to Asics Alexander if it came out that it was only 2.96 miles long instead of 3.1? This has already been talked about, slower times, with the exception of a few courses, means fewer schools. This means less money for the program. Faster times = more money. I am not saying that schools are doing thin on purpose, sometimes it just happens.
I have seen the majority of races that people question are the larger invitational type meets, not smaller ones. This is likely explained simply by the number of eyes on the meet.

Also, many of the smaller meets might not have people as experienced who instead of simply saying, "Wow! You ran an awesome race!" They might respond by thinking, "it is really hot and humid, this is a really hilly course. The pace was not super fast, how did my kid set a PR by 30 seconds?"

I have questioned the length on quite a few courses before, too long as well as too short. I would just like for the course to be published as a correct distance. I do not care what that distance is, but be honest it. Would fewer teams go to Asics Alexander if it came out that it was only 2.96 miles long instead of 3.1? This has already been talked about, slower times, with the exception of a few courses, means fewer schools. This means less money for the program. Faster times = more money. I am not saying that schools are doing thin on purpose, sometimes it just happens.
09/26/2018 11:54:54 AM
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FYI the GATFXCCA has best practice on course measurement. [b]Link[/b] - [url=https://www.gatfxcca.org/xc-coursemeasurements]https://www.gatfxcca.org/xc-coursemeasurements[/url] [b]PDF Link[/b] - [url=https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/6f7c-1658059/GATFXCCA_Cross_Country_Course_Measurement_Guidelines_1_.pdf]https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/document/6f7c-1658059/GATFXCCA_Cross_Country_Course_Measurement_Guidelines_1_.pdf[/url]

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