MileSplit GA

Runners, Coaches, Parents, Alumni and the entire Georgia running community,

If you have yet to hear the news, the GHSA is planning on moving the Class A State Cross Country meets away from Carrollton, GA (where they have been for the last 20 years). As of right this minute, the plan is to have them in Macon, GA one week earlier. So the State cross country championship races for classes AA, AAA, AAAA, AAAAA, and AAAAAA would be Saturday, November 10 in Carrollton as always. But the GHSA has made plans to move the Class A private and public (separate races) to Macon on November 3. As a coach of a Class A team, I am VERY UPSET by this.

Darlington’s athletic director and many other AD’s have already voiced their displeasure to the GHSA, and they were largely ignored. So now it’s our turn.

If you think this is a bad idea, contact the GHSA! Send your email to ghsa@ghsa.net and in the subject put “To Ralph Swearngin- Class A State Cross Country Meet”. If hundreds of you do this—which is possible—we can get this changed. I have already sent my email, and I have already contacted hundreds of people by email asking them to do the same. The GHSA’s inbox is being flooded with emails about this subject, and I ask all of you to continue to send emails all this week.

I hope that as a member of the Georgia running community you have a problem with this. No matter what your school affiliation or classification, or role in the sport: participant, coach, parent, or spectator, this affects us all. If you are associated with a different classification, imagine they are moving your State meet!

Coaches, if you have parent and athlete email lists, forward this to them. Athletes, write! Your opinion is more important than mine or anyone elses. Everyone: use your voice! If you have a blog or website, use it to protest the change.

Now that the GHSA has 6 classifications (and in a way there are 7 with the Class A public-private split), which means there are 14 races at the State cross country meet (up from 10 in 2011). I agree that having 14 races in one day at one location is nearly impossible. But I do not agree with the GHSA’s solution to move Class A to a different location one week earlier and therefore deem it a “lesser” race.

On Saturday at the Class A West Sectional at Landmark Christian I had dozens of conversations about this. EVERYONE I spoke to was upset about it, and shockingly, most of them didn’t even know! So now I don’t even know what I am more upset about- the possible move of the Class A cross country meet, or the fact that the GHSA was trying to slip the details through without anyone knowing about it.

Here are the problems I have that I will voice in my email to the GHSA, but you might have your own. I plan to send my email on Monday.

1. The Class A State meets are some of the most competitive in the State. Arguably, there is more talent and depth in Class A than a couple of the higher classifications. (The top female distance runner in the State, Grace Tinkey, runs for a Class A team. Should the final high school cross country race of her career be the smallest she has run in years? If you are not in Class A, don’t you want to see her race at State?!)

2. Because of this, it is wrong to deprive the Class A athletes of the atmosphere that the State meets in Carrollton provide. Having all classifications on the same day at the same location provides an amazing, exciting atmosphere. That atmosphere will be lost for the one classification (the smallest) to be at a location all by itself. For my team the 2012 State meet under this new format will arguably be the smallest and least attended meet they attend all season.

3. The State meet is attended by dozens of college coaches recruiting our best athletes. By separating Class A, most coaches will only be able to attend one of the State meets, and chances are they are going to pick the bigger one with the most runners. Whenever I call college coaches on behalf of my runners, one of the questions they always ask is: “How did they run in the State Meet at Carrollton?”

4. One of my biggest problems with the new plan is the Class A State meet being a week earlier than the other classifications. This throws off scheduling (and debatably training) for the entire season. Most all cross country meets in Georgia are “all-class”: meaning all classifications running at the same meets on the same course (if not the same race). All classifications should be on the same weekly schedule and the state championship should be on the same weekend (as they always have been). The Darlington Cross Country Festival, an event we put on each year, features schools from all five classifications in the same races.

5. Every year all the runners and coaches look at their times and compare themselves to other classifications’ times, which is natural in competition. Changing the location of one of the classifications will make this comparison impossible; especially considering Carrollton is one of the most difficult courses in the state.

With these problems in mind, I have two recommendations which will address some, but not all of these issues. I am sure there are other solutions and better ideas, so you can email those to the GHSA as well.

1. Move the Class A state races back to Carrollton, but hold them Friday afternoon. I am in agreement that it is impossible to have 14 races on one Saturday at one location. But having 4 races Friday afternoon and 10 on Saturday could work. In that scenario I would recommend that the 4 races that are on Friday rotate every year. (Meaning Class A would be back on Saturday in 2013 and someone else would be Friday).

2. Move half of the six classifications to Macon, keep half in Carrollton, and hold those races on the same Saturday (November 10). If you put A, AAA, and AAAAA in Macon and kept AA, AAAA, AAAAAA in Carrollton, you would have two locations with a large crowd and an exciting, fun atmosphere. Then you could rotate the classifications every other year between Macon and Carrollton. I am not a location purist though and I am open to the State meet being anywhere as long as there is consistency.

Alan Parish
Head Cross Country Coach
Darlington School
aparish@darlingtonschool.org

I think this particular change is just a symptom of a larger problem - that being that we, the GA HS running community, have ceded way too much authority to GHSA. Some sort of central planning organization is needed for HS sports, of course, but when that organization begins to inevitably put it's own interests before those of the community it is supposed to serve, stuff like this happens. GHSA apparently has the authority to actually fine schools for minor violations of "the rules". IMO, Coaches & ADs have been tip-toeing around too much out of fear of being 'in violation' of GHSA, aka 'the Capitol' for you Hunger Games fans out there.. A more responsive & representative, even customer service oriented organization would be beneficial for all, would it not?

@aparish
I take a less conspriatorial view of GHSA actions than Coachbilly. Given that it is not a huge enterprise, and given that they have limited number of people to deal with a lot of sports/activities, and given that this year in particular is huge in terms of the changes they will have to make to accomodate a 6th classification, and now a 7th with the public/private split in single A ...

... the most reasonable interpretation is that they are scrambling to do what they can in every activity, and this is one way that they can "fix" the XC problem and move on to solving the problem in other sports. The problems they are attempting to deal with in XC, and the similar problems that will have to be dealt with in T&F, have been apparent for months. The solution, IMO, is for the XC and T&F community to help them out and give GHSA a plan that will work and will be acceptable BEFORE they come up with their own. Because the Ga CC and T&F community has the expertise and knowledge and connections and has a pulse on what folks might like, etc. And a lot bigger stake in the sport. GHSA just doesn't have it (and that's not slam on them: XC and T&F are just a minor part of their mission).

It might be too late for XC for 2012, but what about T&F in 2013? Albany/Jefferson won't be able to handle 7 classifications in one meet. What will the state meets be like next year? Will they be even more crowded? Will they further constrict growth and expansion of opportunities in the sport? GHSA WILL find SOME solution, but if left to their own imagination and devices, it will probably not be the solution that many folks here would want.

The XC solution they adopted (IMO) is the minimal GHSA needed to do to solve the problem (which was a real problem). It ended up pissing off the least number of people, and required the most minimal of changes to implement. It allowed them to check off "XC" and move onto the other fall sports before they have to tackle the winter sports then the spring sports. The key to getting the T&F "solution" that we want is to make it as easy for GHSA to adopt as their default T&F solution will be. (Because odds are, it's going to be something like a separate state meet in Macon for Class A).

The success of the sectional proposal shows that GHSA is willing to listen to those active in the sport and will accept even a large change if someone/group is willing to do the extensive work for them. I'm not sure if many folks are aware of what was done to get the sectionals going, but it involved not only convincing GHSA that a problem existed and that the solution proposed would solve it, but showing that the proposal had support across the state, working with Albany and Jefferson, and metro/ rural and large class/small class, and doing all the leg work identifying sectional groupings, finding sites able and willing to host, and working out all the minor details (schedule, seeding, advancement, etc). It was a HUGE effort by the coaches involved, and GHSA really had to do little more than adopted it. It was not a plan that GHSA would have been equipped to do themselves all alone. (and it is great for the sport!)

@Divalent

Well said, sir.

Divalent

The solution, IMO, is for the XC and T&F community to help them out and give GHSA a plan that will work and will be acceptable BEFORE they come up with their own. Because the Ga CC and T&F community has the expertise and knowledge and connections and has a pulse on what folks might like, etc.

The success of the sectional proposal shows that GHSA is willing to listen to those active in the sport and will accept even a large change if someone/group is willing to do the extensive work for them.

@Divalent I am willing to do whatever work is necessary to find the best possible solution for cross country and track. I have volunteered my services to the GHSA. Most Single-A coaches feel the same way. We want to help, but the initial decision was made before any of us had any idea what was going on. Based on what I have heard, the decision to move the Class A cross country meet was made without consulting any cross country coaches (or maybe 1).

Continuing the Hunger Games theme, Divalent & parkview are obviously from district 2..

aparish

... I have volunteered my services to the GHSA. Most Single-A coaches feel the same way. We want to help, but the initial decision was made before any of us had any idea what was going on. Based on what I have heard, the decision to move the Class A cross country meet was made without consulting any cross country coaches (or maybe 1).

I can't really be sure, but I think volunteering to help GHSA is not the way to do it, unless what you will be volunteering to them is your services to develop a proposal, get all the stakeholders to sign onto it, and then present it to GHSA. Make less work for them, not more. (Otherwise, they will go simple/minimal).

This problem became apparent (and was discussed here) back in Dec/Jan when the decision to go to 6 classifications seemed imminent (and became more critical when single A was split). The problem of the State Track & Field meet also became evident at that time. If no one is working to give GHSA a reasonable workable solution that will not create more headaches than it solves by the time they have to figure out what they are going to do in T&F, then expect something similar to happen there too.

IMO, there is a window of opportunity right now in T&F that will be closing soon. Once GHSA acts on their own to fix that problem, then the work will become that much harder, because now you have to make the case that their solution has problems. (IOW, as far as GHSA would be concerned, there would no longer be an imminent problem that needs to be fixed.)

Divalent

IMO, there is a window of opportunity right now in T&F that will be closing soon. Once GHSA acts on their own to fix that problem, then the work will become that much harder, because now you have to make the case that their solution has problems. (IOW, as far as GHSA would be concerned, there would no longer be an imminent problem that needs to be fixed.)

@Divalent The committee that helped out with Sectionals is going to meet with the GHSA after the state track meets to review Sectionals/State, discuss any problems that came up, come up with workable solutions, etc. The plan, as I understand it, is to also discuss the 6-class (or 7-class) issue as it pertains to Sectionals and Jefferson/Albany. I do agree that it is probably too late to do anything about 2012 XC. But, there are certainly solutions out there for 2013 single-A XC.

I will say that, if I read the GHSA executive meeting minutes correctly, single-A in track/XC will be divided up into 4 areas (instead of 8 regions), 4 private & 4 public. Track/XC will send, in total, the same number of participants/teams to the state championship series that the other classifications send (4 from each area). In other words, if 16 teams make it to the state meet in AA-AAAAAA, then there will be 8 public school from 'A' and 8 private schools from 'A' going to the state meet - making 16 total schools from A (just like other classes). That could have an impact on the ability of Jefferson/Albany to host all classes.

DISCLAIMER: I HAVE NO DIRECT/INSIDE KNOWLEDGE OF ANY OF THIS. I'm just going off of what I read in the executive committee minutes published on GHSA.net.

Carter

GACARTER

In other words, if 16 teams make it to the state meet in AA-AAAAAA, then there will be 8 public school from 'A' and 8 private schools from 'A' going to the state meet - making 16 total schools from A (just like other classes). That could have an impact on the ability of Jefferson/Albany to host all classes.


Carter

@GACARTER We in Class-A have been told that there will be a Class-A Private school CC State Championship race with 16 teams, and a separate public school race with 16 teams. Top 4 teams from each Section qualify; and in Region 6A our region and section are identical minus the public schools. Other sections are a combination of the public or private schools from two regions.

I am not giving up hope for getting the Class A State CC races changed THIS FALL. Especially since currently there are no high schools cross country meets scheduled in Macon this fall. It would obviously be unacceptable to have a State Meet on a course that none of us would get a chance to preview.

What about Berry College hosting Class A this year? What about Berry College hosting all classifications this fall, or 2013? It would solve all those problems many of you in the larger schools have with the Carrollton course. Berry is a well-known and well-liked course and they have proven themselves outstanding hosts for two decades.

@aparish

I am in support of you and have sent an email. Not sure what good it will do, but just wanted to let you know that single A coaches are not the only ones who disagree with this policy.

As for Berry hosting it, I think Paul has put a bid in before and got shut down since Berry is not a "central location". In other words the south georgia teams would have to travel so much farther than the metro atlanta teams, a fair argument but doesn't seem to be a problem in other sports. If I understand it correctly, this is why we have the girls state track meet in Albany, because the south Georgia teams complained about the boys being up north in Jefferson.

Berry would be a wonderful location that could easily accomodate a two day state xc meet. I again say that Nash Farms would as well. What other courses could do this?

@aparish
They hosted the Viking Open last year on campus on Saturday Nov 12 so maybe they might consider if they are not too busy with their own season.

According to Mapquest, Berry College is a half-hour farther drive from southeast Georgia than Carrollton - which is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Berry is not hosting any college cross country races Nov. 9-10.

@ExcelOrator

wow, I didn't realize that. That's worth mentioning in a proposal if you can get one.

Can anyone explain why the Class A State Meet site for CC has yet to be finalized?
Also, if it is at Macon why are they choosing a site that no one will have a chance to run?
I realize that these questions have been brought up already but I figured I would ask anyways.
Also, if the site has yet to be finalized then would GHSA be willing to have the race at a site such as Berry that the kids could actually race on beforehand?

tauger

Can anyone explain why the Class A State Meet site for CC has yet to be finalized?

@tauger I think in the GHSA's mind it is finalized: Nov. 3 in Macon. If we are able to get the GHSA to change those plans, I think they will be open to any and all options.

aparish

Berry is not hosting any college cross country races Nov. 9-10.

@aparish
If Berry is willing/available to host the state meet and GHSA will allow it, my family will help in any volunteer position!

FYI- I have had two people contact me and offer to be meet director for both the Class A State meets and/or early season preview meets on whatever the State course is. I also had an offer from a timing company to handle Friday afternoon in Carrollton if that could be worked out. None of these people have any affiliation with Class A schools.