MileSplit GA

Brace yourselves, here comes my yearly rant about the GA state meet:

I was in Carrollton for all the state championship races last Saturday. Before each race the announcer said words to this effect, "Congratulations! You are the fastest runners in the state of Georgia!! You have worked really hard and EARNED a spot in the state championships!!"

OK, great speech. However, during EVERY RACE there were multiple people walking around the course - usually before the first mile mark. How do these people make it to the state championships? Do they really qualify as the fastest runners in the state of Georgia? Should "runners" who are so pitifully out of shape that they cannot even jog 3.1 miles be allowed in a championship race? What does it say about our sport when volunteers in orange vests jog easily behind the "fastest runners in the state"? Why aren't there standards for our sport? One of the "fastest" runners in the state of Georgia finished 5K in 37:31 (12:06 per mile) - why isn't that embarrassing to people? Hey, just a thought - if you get lapped on a 1.5 mile loop, it's time to re-think your choice of sports.

Would a three foot tall double amputee make the high school varsity basketball squad here in Georgia? No?! Why not? We evidently have emphysema patients on our varsity XC teams. Please - somebody make me understand this.

Too funny, Coach B, but sadly this has not changed over the years. I remember running in the '96 race and lining up next to a team that had 6 runners, 5 of whom were wearing high top sneakers.

@Blue666
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Coach I hear you on your frustration and the results were reflective on the the fact that most of the deeper teams are in the Metro Atlanta area and in North Georgia. It is a true state meet though so every region has to be represented, even if that means that those teams have kids who struggle time wise.
I know that in track that there was talk of having a sub-regional meet to allow more kids to qualify out of the tougher regions but I am not sure what happened to this idea.

@Blue666

@tauger
I hear you. I just think the philosophy regarding Georgia H.S. cross country (and other states too) has taken a dangerous path. XC is now a sport that doesn't demand a standard for competition and there's nothing dictating when "enough is enough already". In H.S. softball, for example, if a team is down 10 points after 3 innings (or 8 pts. after 5 innings) the umpire invokes the "mercy rule" and the losing team gets to leave before their pride gets smooshed any further. Where is the XC "mercy rule"?

In the girls single-A race Saturday, the last runner was 19:27 behind the winner - that's enough time to run another whole race! Mercy! Mercy!

When did XC become the dumping ground of athletics? "Yay! Little Billy actually 'ran' 3.1 miles! And he only had to stop and suck on his inhaler five times! What a brave little boy he is!"

There is just no parallel for this in any other sport. I think it really, really hurts the reputation of our sport - no, wait - I KNOW it hurts the reputation of the sport. I recently saw a clip of a TV show, "The Middle" where the pathetic, un-athletic daughter of the family made the cross country team by simply "running" one mile - then proceeded to take something like 3 hours to run a 5K race. Hmmm . . . I wonder where the idea for that story line came from.

Agree with you completely. My suggestion is to increase the size of the regions and /or reduce the number of teams which qualify from each region as well reducing the number of
classes. I am amazed at the small number of schools in some regional meets which then send three or four qualifiers to the state meet. Doing these things would certainly weed out some of the teams that truly do not belong. I grew up and competed as a student athlete in another state that had large "districts" and only two classes. In many districts only the top two teams qualified to go on.

To me, the best system was when we took 2 automatically and 3&4 went to the sectional meet.

@autigers96
The number of teams from each regional going to state could be determined by the number of schools in that region. For each region, at the maximum, half of the teams running at region could go, with 4 teams being the most a region could send. These smaller regions that only have 4 or so teams would send 2.

@autigers96 I do hope you only are referencing the state meet. I think one of the strengths of this sport is that students from all abilities get the chance to compete. In other team sports they would not. There are lots of cases that a weak runner gets inspired in later years and becomes a stronger athlete. Cross Country gives the chance for every student to compete. It also gives them a chance to enjoy an activity that they can do throughout their lives, making them healther in the long run.

Also, we do need to encourage the teams and regions that are not powerhouses to get better and stronger, not discourage them.

At the same time, I agree that the walkers a state meet maybe should not compete at state. Maybe a time limit should be set, but it should not be so high that only the powerful teams are allowed to compete. There are some great coaches at those "weaker" schools. They just don't have as strong of a talent pool. I give a lot of credit to those coaches for sticking with it and encouraging their runners to get better each day.

I liked your opinion about giving a lot of kids a chance in this sport. You are right about a time limit to weed out the stragglers.

Perhaps each region can compete at Carrolton weeks prior to state and if a person can run under a specific state qualifying time (just for example 18:30 for boys).

I was impressed with 5A boys. Last finisher right around 22:00 or so. The Girls races are what you must be referring to...

Is the state meet kind of individual sport , like Footlocker , or perhaps a team , like Nike.
Can it be both?

How about invitational only, where all runners would have to earn some standards beforehand?

How many really good runners had to be "no show" , so "walkers" would take their place?

If you like Jacques the Fatalist and his Master, you may agree that we have the best of all systems.

@sprettyman

Yes, I'm talking about championship races. I agree - it is great for as many kids as possible to get out and run. However, let's not pretend that horrible performances are awesome just because the kid showed up. Let's have some standards for excellence. Let's not tell them "you are the fastest runners in the state of Georgia. You earned the right to be here today" if they are clearly out of shape and cannot run. For goodness sake, my 48 year old wife (who is no more than a "fitness" runner) can run under 33:00 for a 5K - all it takes is a little ambition along with simply getting out there and covering a few miles every day.
Final, parting shot - pull the walkers off the course. If they have don't have the guts to run 3.1 miles at the championship race, they shouldn't be allowed to finish.

WOW...

@coachb1542
I completely agree. (mainly for selfish reasons though )
I was out there watching a race where i could have beaten half of the field on my tempo run. We have a sub par team and a fairly tough region, so its a little hard to go individually and close to impossible for our team (but I'll never say never)
Obviously i should quit crying about this and just Step it up, but i cant help but feel like some of these guys are just getting a free ride to state because their top few guys are hardworking or that they are just in a cupcake region. I wish there was a way to separate Pretenders and Contenders . Like a minimum time that has to be met to run the race.
But also dont want to call a 27:00 runner a Pretender, because for all i know he used to be a 37:00 runner that has worked his butt off.

At the Florida Relays, they pull the hook on runners that get lapped in the distance races. Just because you find a way to get into a race does not guarantee that you complete it.

This topic has to be in the top ten rants that dominant discussion here.

My top ten every year rants in no particular order. All of these will be recycled again next year. We are creatures of habit!

1. Attack the ranker. My team got snubbed!
2. Change the state course venue.
3. Change qualifying standards for the state meet.
4. Westover is short and/or ridiculously fast.
5. Clinton Farms is short and/or ridiculously fast.
6. Gwinnett Teams are the best.
7. Cobb teams are on a comeback, next year is our year
8. Private schools recruit.
9. Please do something with the state course. Wood chips are awful.
10. My GPS told me so.

If you make it to state, you should not be shamed as an individual. It is the qualifying process that is broken. I agree, a time standard across the board to qualify for individuals, but it still leaves an avenue for teams to have weak runners at state. A team with the top 3 or 4 runners could have a walker on the team and still place high at state. Does this mean you just pulled their 22:00 minute runner/walker and took the team out of the running for top 5 at state. Is the state cross country meet a team meet or an individual meet? And as for athletes that may have asthma, downes syndrome or any other type of disability, if the system is set so they are able to qualify, which evidently it is, then they should be allowed to compete.

A few of my best memories of great performances would all be negated if we took the suggestion of pulling walkers from the course;

A female runner that stops and walks while she uses her inhaler then picks up running again finishing with a time of 17:54.

A male runner that leads the state race for 3-miles and starts to stagger and walk from dehydration, walks then crawls to the finish line to finish 3rd in 16:02.

A female runner that runs 3.08 K then falls, then walks, then crawls to the finish line, so her team can still place at state. You only need to watch the first 1:50 of the clip.

Just a few comments,

ONEMOREYEAR, your top 10 list is hilarious. Spot on... That belongs on the front of the home page. I appreciate the laugh this morning.

Go Spartans!

Two runners at Druid Hills would have been in the top 20 in the 3A but did not qualify because their region was tough. It is great to have this kind of competition but frustrating seeing how many other slower runner were allowed to run, with significantly slower times. Oh well, better luck next year or moved to an easier region.

@coachb1542

@michiganrunner

Wow, you really missed the point. I thought I was clear about this. I'm not talking about runners who are giving an honest effort. I'm talking about the "runners" who don't give an honest effort - and who obviously haven't trained. Anyone - even if they enter the season completely out of shape - can train (and race) enough during the actual season to be able to run, or at least jog, for 3.1 miles. Let me be clear THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE FOR NORMAL PEOPLE TO WALK DURING A CHAMPIONSHIP RACE. Sure, there are isolated incidents where an asthmatic might need to slow down and use their inhaler - but if that asthmatic ultimately runs a decent time, it shows an honest effort. I see kids (the fastest in Georgia) jogging or walking along apparently just enjoying the view and having themselves a nice little stroll. These people are making a mockery of the championships and should absolutely be pulled from the course. Hey, this is the sport I love. If you don't want to take it seriously, then TAKE A HIKE (literally - take a hike - enjoy it. Just don't do it during the Georgia championships).

Again, it's the current process at fault, not the runners, regardless of the amount of effort. Don't take it out on the kids that qualify by your state's qualifying process. If he qualified, he deserves to be there and allowed to compete. The standards were set long before he/she started the state race and those standards were obviously met. Push the state to change the process not degrade the athletes.

@michigantrack

Your logic is lost on me. I'm qualified to be president of the United States - does that mean I DESERVE to be President?

I have to agree with the idea that there are too many unqualified runners at the state meet. I would also like to state that there are too many at the state meet. We need to do for cross what Florida does. I think we should try to get the state meet down to 16 teams and the top individuals. Teams would qualify to a sectional or district call it what you want from the region. I think the top 4 would be the number, that gives you 32 teams making the state playoffs so to speak. From there we take the top 8 from each sectional. I believe this would create a more competitive state meet. I have notice (and no fault of Carrollton) that some runners have a hard time moving up because there becomes log jams on the course. In the girls 4A race right before the first mile it must have been 50-75 girls between 6:10-6:40. There was a lot of weaving between runners. Eliminating teams would allow runners to run more smoothly and this would lead to better times.

What that means is that if you want to run for president, and you meet the qualifications as low as they may be, you can.

Hence, if you want to run in the GA State Championship and you meet the qualifications as low as they may be, then you can.

If we want to keep an Obama, Palin, or maybe an Oprah from running for President we have to change the qualifications. We can't just pull them out of the race because we don't think they are trying or they don't have a chance of winning.

Just because you qualify and you run for president, doesn't mean you deserve to be the president. But, if by chance you win, BIG NOTE HERE: You would be the President! Deserving or not. That is how things work. If the system is set up with certain criteria, that is what is followed or adhered to.

In principle I agree with you, but in practice we must change the system or the qualification standards, not just pluck kids out that we think are not giving effort.

Examples, what is considered effort:

Jimmy Johnson runs a race with the intent to finish 35th and not crash IOT be the eventual champion. (Should he be pulled for not trying to win the race?)

The elite military unit selections cut individuals from their units even when they finish 1st out of a hundred candidates when they only perform well enough to win but do not perform to their potential. (Effort is what is evaluated.)

Girls in your very own GA State Championship ran or jogged with no intent of winning or even placing in the event prior, knowing their team would qualify, just so they would be able to run a better race at State. (How are we to determine who is putting out effort and who is not)